tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post6054585821070479292..comments2023-10-08T03:32:33.151-04:00Comments on bookeywookey: SUMMER POETRY CHALLENGE - Song of Myself - Walt WhitmanTedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05511240514127283024noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-35052199444485909552007-08-04T08:39:00.000-04:002007-08-04T08:39:00.000-04:00It's great to have this argument with you, Eva! I...It's great to have this argument with you, Eva! I love this sort of exchange. <BR/><BR/>My interpretation is that that is exactly what Whitman means. In a way I agree with you - it is the ultimate arrogance and it is literally impossible to become someone else, but it is an artistic ideal, it's as close as we get and the struggle to get there could also be looked upon as the ultimate act of empathy!Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511240514127283024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-82462662883783483582007-08-04T00:01:00.000-04:002007-08-04T00:01:00.000-04:00To be fair to my school, we did read Walden. We d...To be fair to my school, we did read Walden. We didn't use a textbook in English class!<BR/><BR/>I guess I can see the idea of temporary transformation, but I don't think that's the same as world=self. I certainly wasn't arguing that people's characters don't radically change throughout their lives (due to events like the ones you listed). However, I think it's arrogant to assume that I can ever "be" someone else, inhabit their life, understand them. But then, as I said, I haven't really read Whitman, so maybe that's not what he means.Evahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703372903532502944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-3529717755789300122007-08-01T13:08:00.000-04:002007-08-01T13:08:00.000-04:00Dewey, I must admit, I don't think my high school ...Dewey, I must admit, I don't think my high school had us read Whitman either - although I had to read him in college and had a hard time getting anything out of it at the time. I was mortified by poetry and literally the only thing I remember reading in high school, besides Shakespeare, was Ozymandius.Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511240514127283024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-43113488339544382972007-08-01T12:39:00.000-04:002007-08-01T12:39:00.000-04:00I am shocked by Eva's high school! I have never se...I am shocked by Eva's high school! I have never seen a high school lit textbook without Whitman in it, so her school had to work hard to avoid exposing her to him.<BR/><BR/>I liked your "rant" about art/imagination, as well as your comparison of Dylan and Whitman.Deweyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00395712971920800717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-58620788110771205042007-08-01T08:03:00.000-04:002007-08-01T08:03:00.000-04:00actually, Eva - I should have said at the end "and...actually, Eva - I should have said at the end "and served as a voice" not "but."Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511240514127283024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-81809809988402775162007-08-01T08:01:00.000-04:002007-08-01T08:01:00.000-04:00Stefanie - I'm just beginning to appreciate Whitma...Stefanie - I'm just beginning to appreciate Whitman actually, I had found him less accessible when I had read him less carefully (and as a younger person).<BR/><BR/>Eva - It was a long one, I had trouble stopping! Whitman's transformation is an artist's ideal. In one way I agree with you - we are very formed by our culture, gender, etc. However I think transformations do occur. In a simple way, I think when people of all walks all go into a room, take of their clothes and put on a paper gown to sit waiting for an x-ray, there is a transformation of sorts. Pain can transform people, love transforms, grief, torture, mental and physical illness, also becoming a parent,becoming a partner, a widow , a crime victim - these really can irrevocably change us - as can a 'coming out' of any kind - whether it be about sexuality or about say having a mental illness. Speaking from my own experience I can tell you that my whole reality transformed as did my character and my health when I came out. I indeed transcended my culture and the rules it provided for me about roles, identity, expectations, what is "normal" etc... <BR/>Finally I think transformation - often of a temporary kind - is exactly what artists accomplish when they do useful work. Readers, viewers of paintings or performances, listeners to music transcend their every day lives and sometimes their culture or gender through art - and it is just such transformation that is one of art's chief purposes, I think. If a male reader from Wisconsin experiences identification with Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird - would you not say he has temporarily transcended his culture or gender? If someone reads Marx's manifesto and hears the strains of the Internationale and sees society afresh, suddenly realizing how he can have a role in it and participating in the overthrow of a monarchy, that person has indeed transcended his culture and past experiences (not that he is not forever formed by them too). <BR/>Anyway I agree with your point about Yevtushenko and Whitman not only do they create compelling images, but they served as a voice of their country - what a role!Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511240514127283024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-37730580584949051452007-08-01T02:27:00.000-04:002007-08-01T02:27:00.000-04:00I'm impressed by your fortitude-that must have bee...I'm impressed by your fortitude-that must have been one looong post to write!<BR/><BR/>I've never read Whitman (this challenge is making me mad at my high school), and I'm not sure that this post has convinced me to read him, lol. I don't really agree with a lot of what the philosophy behind the poetry seems to be; the idea of world=self just doesn't work for me. It seems that it's impossible to completely transcend your culture, gender, past experiences, etc. and "become" some one else.<BR/><BR/>As far as your art rant, I see where you're coming from. But if artists are asking for government money, it makes sense that they'd focus on the services art does for society! In the past, we had super-rich nobility to become patrons for artists; nowadays, it seems more difficult for artists to find funding. <BR/><BR/>It seems like Yevtushenko and Whitman both have a talent for creating vivid, yet violent, imagery.Evahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703372903532502944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578764475698868093.post-66823691693338549972007-07-31T09:17:00.000-04:002007-07-31T09:17:00.000-04:00Love, love, love Walt Whitman!Love, love, love Walt Whitman!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com